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Bad replicator ?

Thu, 2008-07-10 10:16 — Pierre-Luc

Larry, is it possible that a DDP image (DVD-9 w/ CSS) that I created with DAE, verified and burned a DVD+R DL from that for testing, showed no errors, but the replicator can't seem to be able to create a DVD+R DL with the DVD-R's (Layer 0/1) I sent to him ? Although Eclipse Analysis passed.

I mean, I did all the tests I could do, transfer the master DVD-R's over a PC before sending to be sure the read is ok, compare the DDP with TS folder and the disc image created from that. No errors.

But the replicated discs have hard time to reach the 2nd layer, if not at all, some players will just crash.

I then outputted the same DDP image on DLT and the replicated discs play fine! I'm stumped.

I suspect the replicator, although they claim all their tests passed. But I just want to know if you ever heard of a similar problem ?

I mean, the DDP image is perfect, since all my tests passed and DLT replicated perfect. And this is the first time I got error from submission on DVD-R's.

If you have any insights.
Thanks!

‹ Layer break not where DVDAE says it is Replicator Rejection ›
Sun, 2008-07-13 09:27 — Pierre-Luc

No special protection

As far as I'm concerned (unless of Sony mistake), only CSS was applied. And the thing is that the file size of VTS#4 is correct, but DVDFab display it's length as only 26sec. So it's certainly not a fake.

I also tried to rip with MacTheRipper and it couldn't recognize the content as it said "Erro: can't read IFO's". IFO's seem corrupted.

Monday I'll try to compare sectors with DAE log, as Larry suggested. I'll also try DVD Decrypter (which was great by the past) and IFOEdit.

Thanks again all
Pierre

Sun, 2008-07-13 01:47 — danny

special protection on it?

is there a special protection-system on the dvd like x-protect or something else?

theses systems create fake-vts or fake-chapters!

danny

Fri, 2008-07-11 13:29 — larryapple

Never heard of DVDFab

Is it possible that both layers have the same sector count ?

Very unlikely. Please do a search of our forums for a recommended decrypter. (Sorry, I have no time). And open DVDAE on the original VIDEO_TS folder, build an image, and get the log. If you enable the right preferences, you will get a UDF directory of your disc. (Never mind ISO). Start there if you want to figure out anything.

The decrypter shouldn't remove anything except flag bits, certainly not an entire VTS! stupid.

Larry

Fri, 2008-07-11 12:55 — Pierre-Luc

Tried to decrypt

Weird, I tried to decrypt the DVD with DVDFab and it tells me that the last VTS(#4) is a fake and only length 0:26s (Supposed to be 30min.). Here's the log

Info for drive [F:\] (DVDFab Platinum 4.0.3.0)
Drive region: 1

Disc type: Video DVD
Disc region: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Volume name: AMERICANO
Video standard: NTSC
Layer 0 size: 2050848 sectors (4005 MBytes)
Layer 1 size: 2050848 sectors (4005 MBytes)

CSS (Content Scramble System) protection is removed!
RC (Region Code) protection is not found.
RCE (Region Code Enhancement) protection is not found.
APS (Analog Protection System) protection is not found.
UOPs (User Operation Prohobitions) protection is not found.

Invalid PGCs protection is not found.
Invalid CELLs protection is not found.
Invalid VOBUs protection is not found.
Fake vts 4 is removed!
1 fake vts protections are removed!
Bad sector protection is not found!
Structure protection (ARccOS, RipGuard, etc.) is removed!

Is it possible that both layers have the same sector count ?

Thanks
Pierre

Fri, 2008-07-11 08:10 — Pierre-Luc

Interestting Ian

I didn't know that. But I'm not sure I understand how to check the error rates ?

Actually, the 2nd layer is accessible, but depending on the player, some content can't be read. Ex. Player 1 will access to VTSM but stays on it when trying to select a chapter. Player 2 will play chapter before LayerBreak and skip chapters until the end after LB. Selecting from VTSM also works. But both won't access last VTS(#4) (Movie in VTS#3), one will restart the First Play and one will just crash (stop).

I mean, how can it be possible that only a part of the 2nd layer is unreadable ? This really is the first I have problems with this workflow and submitting DDP on DVD-R's with CSS.

I'll try to decrypt the replicated disc, as Larry proposed.

Thanks
Pierre

Fri, 2008-07-11 07:25 — ianshepherd

Error rates

Have you checked the error rates on the pressed disc ? The second layer is pressed separately and glued to the first. We've seen error rates on the pressed copies go through the roof on the second layer because of problems with this process, which obviously causes issues. For that matter, we've seen the second layer of an entirely different disc put on, and the first layer twice - not surprisingly these didn't play either !

It doesn't sound as if the DVD-R is the source of the problem, to me...

Ian

Thu, 2008-07-10 15:47 — larryapple

Player crash should not affect decryption

You should still be able to decrypt the DVD with one of the free decryption programs on PC or Mac. Then compare the files to the originals to see if they are the same. Use unix "cmp" from the terminal as a start. Or at least see if you get all the files and they are the same size.

Larry

Thu, 2008-07-10 13:51 — Pierre-Luc

Right, I already got in

Right, I already got in touch with Trai about this one, in case we'd decide to verify more thoroughly. But paying for that verification would almost the same amount that cost to redo the job, so there's nothing to win, other than to know whose fault. If money was not an issue!

Trying to play the replicated disc 2nd layer on Mac or PC will make software player to crash, so I can't decrypt it and compare.

Let's assume that the replicator's DVD drive is the issue, how can we prove it and make it refund ? I suppose the guy who'd verify could print an official report that certifies the master is ok and perfectly readable ?

In the future, I'll stick with DLT or USB stick.

Thanks
Pierre

Thu, 2008-07-10 12:19 — larryapple

Eclipse does not check all of the data, only the structure

Hi Pierre-Luc,

Eclipse does not check playability and does not look at most of the VOB file data. It checks only that the DDP image structure is correct and that the length of each VOBU agrees with the length stated in the VOBU header. You checked that what you sent did not have data errors, but the replicator's DVD drive could have failed to read it properly.

If you want to know, you could submit the replicated disc to a DVD media verifier, which would check reflectivity and readability.

Another option is to copy or decrypt the replicated disk to a VIDEO_TS folder, make an image with DVDAE, and compare the original folder to the image with DVDAE. This might be more problematic if it was encrypted with CSS, depending what the decryption did.

If the data is intact you could then submit it to the Panasonic MEI verifier ($10k +) or ask Trai to do it for you.

All in all, not an easy thing to troubleshoot.

Regards,

Larry

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