Rivergate Software Inc. - makers of DVDAfterEdit

Hi Michael,

As far as I know this restriction doesn't apply to HD DVD players - they have always been able to play recordable discs, the only complicating factors are media compatibility, and data rates on red-laser test copies.

> I'm starting to feel like the BD apologist on this list. ;->

I can see how you might feel like that :-) But the truth is there are plenty of BD enthusiasts here, our survey came out roughly 50/50, remember, and Larry has had a burner in his Mac or some time now. I guess though we were looking forward to getting the best out of *both* formats - because of it's very open nature, HD DVD offers some great possibilities for HDAE, and it feels like a shame those might not be realised.

Ian

I know that until Sony modified the BD player firmware it was not possible to play BD-RE discs on any of the set top players as the discs lacked copy protection. Is the situation the same with HD-DVD? Has Toshiba already made the change?

Michael

Excellent, insightful ( long ) analysis of Warner's decision, from www.dvd-intelligence.com :

http://tinyurl.com/2bbuyc

Please read the full article to get the proper context, but here are a few points that jumped out at me:

- Sony is losing money on each PS3 it sells, due in large part to the inclusion of the expensive BD capability

- PS3 attach rate is low – barely one BD title bought per machine, against 4-5 discs for a standalone player

- The Warner "deal" can be interpreted as the price Sony is willing to pay to control the pricing strategy of its PS3 but, more importantly, of its dedicated Blu-ray players, generator of multiple-disc purchase. To achieve this objectives, the HD DVD competition had to go.

- With competition out of the way, likelihood of BD companies reaching a common 'understanding' on a 'reasonable' pricing policy. The BD technology is inherently more expensive than the knocked out HD DVD while offering essentially the the same benefits. Don’t expect to see many BD players below the $200-250 bar anytime soon.

Ian

I just read the approx. prices to re-tool for HD ($37K) and BD ($1.2M). I don't know what it can represents for a replication plant, but the demand will need to be more than sufficient for the plants around the world to make the move, don't you think ? HD DVD will probably live for a while.

It's good to hear that HDMV is powerful and flexible, that's good news. I've also read that BD-J code can access HDMV content, so "converting" isn't necessary - again, a good thing, if it's right. However everything else in your post just confirms my earlier conclusion. All but our very largest customers only started using CSS when it became free-of-charge ! Outside of Hollywood, cheaper copy-protection keys won't be enough, AACS needs to be optional for BD replication to be economically viable. Hopefully this will happen very soon.

I hope you're right that HD DVD survives, but given the hype at the moment cheap combo players will be essential in order for this to happen. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this is Toshiba's next move.

Ian

Hi Michael,

You're right, HDMV allows pop-up menus and slideshows, although not picture-in-picture, network connectivity etc, etc. I'm not sure how much flexibility of animation etc it allows though, do you have more info ?

And, doesn't this mean Scenarist for authoring, at the moment ? That's still a pretty pricey solution. Now that HDAE can convert Standard to Advanced Content, we will be able to author HDi DVDs with only DVDSP, HDAfterEdit and TextEdit. Well OK, nobody in their right mind would use TextEdit, you'll need a Jscript editor and debugger, but there are excellent free ones like jEdit, and the plan is to add this capability to HDAE, if the demand is sufficient.

Ian

While I agree with the reasons given by WB for their decision ( one format benefits all ), like Alex I think they have backed the wrong horse, especially as far as smaller indie productions are concerned.

With HD DVD Advanced Content there is a healthy scene of people using HDi scripting for HD DVD pop-up menus, picture-in-picture, games etc - which was basically accessible to anyone who could get their head around XML and Javascript. In fact, I am currently testing a new feature of HDAE which can convert HD DVD Standard Content to Advanced so that we will be able to add HDi features ( like U-Control etc ) to pretty much any HD DVD, including the output of DVDSP.

By contrast, BD-J is immature and unreliable, from what I read - and has a much steeper learning curve. Add to that the fact that content protection is mandatory on manufactured BD discs, making them _very_ expensive to produce, relatively speaking, and indie producers will be stuck with "one-size-fits-all" BD authoring on recordables, rather being able to stretch the boundaries and create truly professional products. A shame.

Having said all that, HD DVD has looked "down and out" before, and clawed it's way back. It would only take one studio to be persuaded to defect, and this might all change again. However I have read comments that Warner made their decision because Fox refused to switch from BD to HD DVD, so perhaps this is unrealistic.

As far as Apple offering BD authoring goes, we will have to wait and see - as Alex pointed out a while ago on the Tully list, a BD-Mac would need an HDCP-compliant display and graphics card, as well as a drive and player software. All of this is possible of course, but it makes me wonder if any early Macs will meet the requirements.

Of course, HDAE will support Blu Ray as well, so whatever "the market decides", we'll be ready :-)

Ian